Russ Gibb at Random

Opinionated as usual

January 17, 2008

NOTE: Help me out! When I'm speaking about "School of Choice", I really should be using the term called "dual enrollment."

Gibb's political party
Coast to coast telephone radio talk show
Obama's church
Obama's books
George Soros
Clinton, Obama and Edwards
Great teacher Earl Lamb
Politics and the Media
Media reads the Media
Bullies and Gibb
Bad and Good guys
Education - Fordson, Dearborn, Edsel
Dual Enrollment
Henry Ford Community College
John Burl Artis
Sharon Dulmage
Cost of College
Rip off Corporation CEO's
Highest Paying Industries
Democratic Congress Pay race
The Forgotten American

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20 Comment(s)

You hit the nail on the head as far as HFCC goes. The classes and professors are already "dumbing down" their lessons for students who can barely speak English and to now bring in high school students who can't (or won't) pass a high school class puts the final nails in the coffin.

--by Jeannie on 1/18/08   Lives: Dearborn  

23:40 come on on russ,. Here is your logic: bush went to war because of the information that bureaucrats gave him and many of these people are university people and many of those university people are liberals.... ???

a slip of the tongue at 13:40 ? heh

--by eastside on 1/18/08   Lives: Dearborn  

Appreciated your meanderings today, Russ. And a big thanks to Alex for putting it on my front burner, as I work on the Huckabee / FairTax campaigns (volunteer). Of course, I don't want to miss this opp to give you food for thought, so here it is:

Mr. Huckabee's advocacy of the FairTax ( ) is the single most important policy position in this election. Here's why:

The FairTax rate of 23 percent on a total taxable consumption base of $11.244 trillion will generate $2.586 trillion dollars – $358 billion more than the taxes it replaces ( ). [BHKPT]

The FairTax has the broadest base and the lowest rate of any single-rate tax reform plan ( ). [THBP]

Real wages are 10.3 percent, 9.5 percent, and 9.2 percent higher in years 1, 10, and 25, respectively than would otherwise be the case ( ). [THBNP]

The economy as measured by GDP is 2.4 percent higher in the first year and 11.3 percent higher by the 10th year than it would otherwise be ( ). [ALM]

Consumption benefits ( ) [ALM]:

• Disposable personal income is higher than if the current tax system remains in place: 1.7 percent in year 1, 8.7 percent in year 5, and 11.8 percent in year 10.

• Consumption increases by 2.4 percent more in the first year, which grows to 11.7 percent more by the tenth year than it would be if the current system were to remain in place.

• The increase in consumption is fueled by the 1.7 percent increase in disposable (after-tax) personal income that accompanies the rise in incomes from capital and labor once the FairTax is enacted.

• By the 10th year, consumption increases by 11.7 percent over what it would be if the current tax system remained in place, and disposable income is up by 11.8 percent.

Over time, the FairTax benefits all income groups. Of 42 household types (classified by income, marital status, age), all have lower average remaining lifetime tax rates under the FairTax than they would experience under the current tax system ( ). [KR]

Implementing the FairTax at a 23 percent rate gives the poorest members of the generation born in 1990 a 13.5 percent improvement in economic well-being; their middle class and rich contemporaries experience a 5 percent and 2 percent improvement, respectively ( ). [JK]

Based on standard measures of tax burden, the FairTax is more progressive than the individual income tax, payroll tax, and the corporate income tax ( ). [THBPN]

Charitable giving increases by $2.1 billion (about 1 percent) in the first year over what it would be if the current system remained in place, by 2.4 percent in year 10, and by 5 percent in year 20 ( ). [THPDB]

On average, states could cut their sales tax rates by more than half, or 3.2 percentage points from 5.4 to 2.2 percent, if they conformed their state sales tax bases to the FairTax base ( ). [TBJ]

The FairTax provides the equivalent of a supercharged mortgage interest deduction, reducing the true cost of buying a home by 19 percent ( ). [WM]

ALERT: Kotlikoff refutes Bruce Bartlett's shabby critiques of the FairTax ( ).

--by Daar Fisher on 1/18/08   Lives: Detroit area  

Russ, You brought up a very interesting question . Where did this guy Obama come from and who is the money guys behind him.To fast to soon.

--by Old Dem. on 1/18/08   Lives: Michigan  

Mr Gibb, Thank you for being you. I love the way you ramble on about so many different topics. You amaze me with your off the cuff knowledge of so many things. The information about Geroge Soros was an enlightenment.

--by Helen on 1/18/08   Lives: Dearborn  

Dear Russ:

You are 100% right that the quality of instruction has plummeted at HFCC but it’s not completely the fault of poor students.

It has becoming clear that the DPS is killing off elective courses and jobs to send students over to HFCC. Half of the problem is that at HFCC has more part time adjunct instructors that have no background in what they teach but are way cheaper than full time teachers. Many of the full timers have been teaching there so long that they have no idea what is going on outside the walls of academia. They are simply clueless to the current state of technology because they don’t have to. The equipment is out dated, the facility is crumbling, and theft in the parking lot is exploding. Car theft and break in’s are way up at HFCC. Security officers park out back and sleep in their trucks with the engine idling and the over head lights twirling.

The overall quality of HFCC is slipping away quickly. It begins when you turn into the crater laden parking lot that looks like it has been strafed by a squadron of A-10 tank busters, or have to park in the mud field out behind the tennis courts. We go into classes and have to deal with the ridicules adolescent behavior of high school students in classes we pay good money for. HFCC is cutting back on full time teachers so often times, people who actually need the courses for our jobs or are trying to get retraining to make a living, get bumped because of some 16 year old kid who got priority enrollment through the HS.

The quality of instructors has gone to hell too. I have a teacher at HFCC that, basically, does nothing but tell students to read the book, gives us the answers to tests, shows videos and goes outside to smoke cigarettes 5 times a class. Most students just sit around for 3 hours a class period talking on their cell phones or simply leave and only come in for the tests which they already have the answers to. The teacher just gives them an A because half of the class are high schoolers who could care less about what they are getting out of the class other than the grade. The teacher obviously has no background in what he teaches and has no control of his class room for what little time he is in there. HFCC has truly become the 4th high school and I have transferred to Baker College.

So what are the HFCC instructors supposed to do when a HS student acts up in their class room? Send them to the Deans office? This has gotten out of hand and the quality of HFCC is now third rate. Sure enrollment is up, but that’s because the State of Michigan is sending unemployed workers there under the Michigan Works program. The numbers are skewed by the free tuition for HS students and Michigan Works participants. The numbers are there but the quality is gone!

--by hank High on 1/18/08   Lives: Detroit area  

Finally some people are speaking up about some of the deteriorating conditions going on at HFCC.
I have had some great teachers at "Hank High" but I agree that many of the high school students roaming the campus have gotten out of hand.
In one of my classes kids use their cellphones whenever they feel like it and the instructor just seems to ignore the disruption.
Also cheating seems to go unpunished.
I understand that a community college exists to give students a shot at a college education but at HFCC its seems that some of the student are shooting at the college.

--by HFCC student on 1/18/08   Lives: Dearborn  

Hey,Hey. Right on. I live in Dearborn and attended HFCC for one semester. It was like a jungle in some of my classes. I pity some of the teachers having to put up with these high school jerks. I now attend Schoolcraft College much better atmosphere.

--by Got ya on 1/18/08   Lives: Dearborn  

Dear Mr.Gibb
Thank you for making public some of the problems at HFCC. I teach there and can tell you that some of the comments on your site are correct.
However, the other side of the story is that many student at the college are well behaved and polite young people.
To my knowledge the administration at HFCC are aware of these stated problems and are taking steps to correct them.

--by HFCC Instructor on 1/18/08   Lives: Michigan  

HFCC Instructor:

No one is saying that there are NO good teachers at HFCC. The problem is that administration is not only doing nothing about the problems, they created it! They are not replacing retired teachers with new industry relevant instructors, they just hire two or three semi-qualified part time teachers for every one retired full time teacher. The quality that is left behind is being overshadowed by the terrible decisions that have been made at HFCC.

I will not mention the field of study I am currently a student in. I would like to tell you about how administration has destroyed this, and several other great programs at HFCC. I attend HFCC for job training and have been, on and off, for the last 20 years. 20 years ago in 1987, there were 8 full time, professionally certified, industry relevant instructors there. 10 years ago in 1997 there were 4. Now, in 2008, there is 1. One full time teacher and over 15 part time teachers. Many of them have no formal teaching experience and very little background in what they teach.

Enrollment is up, cost of books, lab fees, service charges and a ton of other nickel and dime costs are up yet HFCC now has well less than 50% of its teaching staff as part time teachers. Tuition for a three credit hour class is less than $200.00 but all the other crap was $214.00. More is spent on lab fees, books, and service charges than tuition. I am not buying the crap story that the place is crumbling because they keep the tuition down. They keep the tuition down but jack you up for everything else. The state of Michigan is pumping millions into that place, so is my employer, Ford Motor Company, and other companies who send their workers over there for job training, yet where is all the money going? Its going to, as usual, a top heavy administrative model that Dearborn is famous for.

Could someone tell me exactly how many part time administrators there are at HFCC? How many administrative jobs have left HFCC in the last 10 years in comparison to support and teaching staff?

--by Just a thought on 1/18/08   Lives: Detroit area  

I graduated from HFCC and I can attest to the fact that some of the classes I took were over-run by loud mouth cell phone addicted,ignorant students. High school kids that should NEVER have been in a college class. In about half of my classes cheating and rude behavior was rampant. Many teachers seemed unable, nor willing, to control rowdy students.I now attend a college where they know what the word discipline means. HFCC could use a Dean of Discipline.

--by Like it is. on 1/19/08   Lives: Detroit area  

The comments regarding HFCC encompass both truth and not so true. Parking lots are horrible, the worst I have ever seen. One idea is to rent them out to NASA for Mars rover testing. However help is on the way. The mudfields are to become new parking, there is a several year plan in stages to correct this. There is a strong tendency (it seems institutionalized at HFCC) for a top heavy Administration ie 2 HR administrators and so on. They then promote part time faculty and also bring in temp employees to claim jump jobs that should be filled in the normal process. This goes back YEARS and has not changed. Job politics would make Mayor Daley proud and has not changed. However I find full time faculty to be the best ,willing to engage and learn new technologies. We really need somehow to have a seperate Board of Trustees or Education. Actually complete seperation from the albatross called DPS would be most beneficial. Many Board members have as much idea about issues at HFCC as (to paraphrase Truman refering to McArthur) a pig does about sailing.

--by s bundy on 1/19/08   Lives: Detroit area  

Bad news; HFCC is not the exception to the rule. 'REAL' colleges have people that are rude too. Oh, and those horrible HS students? I was one of them for four courses over two semesters at HFCC. In fact, the other HS student and I were the orderly and respectful ones.

Look at these kids at HFCC that go there after they graduate HS and tell me that they aren't the same rude people they were. This has nothing to do with dual-enrollment; just the quality of person that comes out of DPS.

Besides, are these HS students wearing a sign that says 'hi, I'm only 17 years and 7 months old -- not 18 and 6 months like the other 20 people in this room'?; get real.

Stop clustering people and go to a pretentious university if you think you are above HS students, they have just as much right as you to be there.

--by Mark Stanislav on 1/20/08   Lives: Dearborn  

Mr Stanislav, You missed the point. No one is saying that High school students should not go to HFCC. Only those high school students that have failed to pass the two required exams. This is the case now,a student can enter HFCC even if he has failed both tests. All he has to do is take the tests not pass the tests.

--by teacher and parent on 1/20/08   Lives: Dearborn  

My son started at HFCC in this Winter Semester, We withdrew him in the first week after he reported that 2 of his 5 classes were more unruly than his classrooms at EFHS as many of the students in his classes were duel enrollee’s.

Oakland Community College accepted his late registration because the counselor there informed us that they have had a wave of transfers from HFCC in the last fall and current winter semesters.

Oakland Community College is now targeting HFCC students for enrollment with in-district tuition rates for out-of-district HFCC transferee’s and has made it clear that they are NOT accepting non-qualified HS enrollee's like HFCC is now doing.

--by See Ya HFCC on 1/22/08   Lives: Dearborn  

Maybe I am slow on the uptake. What, exactly, is the benefit for a high school student to attend HFCC when they can't even pass their classes at Fordson? I understand that a high-achieving student can gain college credit and experience while in high school, so they benefit, and sometimes greatly. How does a poor-perfoming student benefit from attending HFCC? One presumes a poor student won't pass their classes at HFCC, either. Why are they doing this?

--by Dearborn High Dad on 1/22/08   Lives: Dearborn  


It all started out as a great idea, to get AP and Honors kids in college level classes to ease the transition into college for those high achieving students. What it has become is a way for DPS now to do two things:

1 Dump students from overcrowded high schools into Hank High

2 Build the method by which DPS will kill off elective courses in the High Schools and send those students to community college in the same manor that other districts send students to career centers.

Hospitality, health care and computer classes have already been ripped out of the 3 high schools and sent to the Berry center. Little by little, the HS’s are clearing out all the electives except for “clean� classes like business, computers and foreign language.

--by Cost cutting measure on 1/22/08   Lives: Dearborn  

Mad as hell. The Dearborn School System was at one time one of the best in the country. Now under Dr. Artis and his politically correct entourage. It is failing daily. Now the failing students are sinking our Henry Ford Community College as well. When will our School Board stop the placating and clean house at Ten Eyck ?

--by Mad as Hell on 1/22/08   Lives: Dearborn  

Has anyone on this site been looking at the proportional plunge of, not only the DPS, but most districts in Michigan under the Bush and Grandholm administrations?

Over JBA's tenure, public school finding has been slashed to the bone! I’m not letting anyone at Ten Eyke off the hook, but our Governor and president have to take at least half of the blame. Grandholm committed a bold face lie in telling us she was not going to touch public school funding. Within two years of her first term, public school funding was cut. How did we respond? We re-elected her...

--by call a spade a spade on 1/22/08   Lives: Detroit area  

I'm goood looking

--by me on 2/25/10   Lives: Detroit area  

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