Oh my GOD !

The simplest answer to all these questions is to outlaw guns completely in this country. The right to bear arms was useful back in the 1700's when lawlessness ran amoke, but these days we have ample law enforcement. In areas where there are the most firearms, there are the most people dying of firearms etc. I know a lot of people will be very upset if we outlaw firearms but I don't agree with a lot of laws myself. It would take years, and probably even decades to see the impact but eventually guns would be hard to find. I also know that plenty of hunters will be upset with this but they can find a different excuse to sit in the cold, wet woods and bond (while waiting for Bambi to eat their pile of carrots). If you want to stop firearm deaths, get rid of the firearms!

--by WONT HAPPEN IN MY TOWN on 10/5/06   Lives: Dearborn  

"The simplest answer to all these questions is to outlaw guns completely in this country."

So what do we do about the document that we call THE CONSTITUTION?

I have no answer to school violence, and having guns in the classroom is probably a terrible idea. But shredding our constitution is certainly not the answer.

--by LayLo on 10/5/06   Lives: Dearborn  

WON’T HAPPEN IN MY TOWN

This has been the age old argument. The problem with disarming the population is that the only people who would have guns would be the bad guys.

History has shown us that the need to keep and bear arms is not an issue of home self defense, it’s an issue of keeping the government in check. A disarmed population is a precursor to an ultimately oppressive government (even more so than current) has total control over its population.

The call for weapons in the class room is a call from frustration by those who are sick and tired of unstable criminals victimizing children in class rooms and is totally understandable, but unacceptable. The cost to repel gunmen would be far outweighed by the amount of chaos that would be crated in the event of some student getting a hold of a teacher’s gun.

--by History repeats itself on 10/6/06   Lives: USA  

I guess LayLo is more worried about keeping a gun under his/her pillow then all the gun violence in this country. Will everything in THE CONSTITUTION be applicable in 5,000 years? Of course not, times change. We need to make some choices. Do we want to stop gun violence or keep a gun under our pillow for that night when someone is crawling through our window in the middle of the night to steal our plasma TV's? As far as HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF's (AKA Michigan Militia) comment about protecting ourselves against the government, where has there ever been an example of guns themselves helping against a government oppresion?

--by NOT PARANOID on 10/6/06   Lives: Dearborn  

Not Paranoid may want to think about the French Resistance during the Second World War if he wants a case of guns helping overthrow the Vichy government. Or how about the people in Mexico who, through the use of force, were able to bring about the change of government? Or the Chechens who did not like the new government that the Russians had installed?

--by joe on 10/6/06   Lives: Dearborn  

Oh, were you referring to the time that the Chechens took over a theatre and 118 people died? Or are you referring to the time they massacred 330 in a Russian schoolhouse? You make a strong argument about keeping guns legal with those examples. Also, guns didn't have anything to do with overthrowing the Vichy government. The Americans and Allied forces overthrew the Vichy government (the same forces you want to protect yourself against with 38 caliber revolvers!) Please don't site examples where innocent people were killed as a reason for keeping firearms legal.

--by GIVE ME A BREAK on 10/6/06   Lives: Dearborn  

To "Not" Paranoid:

"I guess LayLo is more worried about keeping a gun under his/her pillow then all the gun violence in this country."

Wrong. I don't own a gun. I do own a couple of pillows, though.

"Will everything in THE CONSTITUTION be applicable in 5,000 years?"

I hesitate to dignify that ridiculous question with a response, but here goes:
If Americans like you throw away our rights and our constitution, it will be long gone before the next 5000 years. At any rate, let's discuss whether the Constitution is applicable to The Here and Now.

I won't question your patriotism.

"Do we want to stop gun violence or keep a gun under our pillow...?"

Think carefully. Are those two things mutually exclusive? Did any of the gunmen at the schools take a gun from under his pillow, take aim, and kill people in schools?

Now, can we get past the pillow talk?

--by LayLo on 10/6/06   Lives: Dearborn  

Perhaps Laylo has never read the Constitution. There is a section called AMENDMENTS. That's where the constitution gets updates (e.g. women's right to vote). When the Constitution was written, the only people granted full rights were white male land owners, so don't start in with your "should we just shred the Constitution?" slippery slope. We as Americans give up rights all the time in the name of safety. Ever hear of the controversial wire tapping laws?? Try another argument.

--by Get the Facts on 10/6/06   Lives: Dearborn  

Let me start by formatting this like LayLo.

OK, this is better (this will take up more room and consequently make what I say look more important than others). This an also be referred to as Abed Hammoud put it, a tennis match style format.

The "gun under the pillow" statement was to represent needing guns to protect oneself. This is the reason we have "the right to bear arms". This is the same right that got the gun into the hands of the school shooters. He got his guns from his "right to bear arms" (sorry to all I had to explain this to, I thought everyone would understand this without further explanation).

The "5,000 years" comment was to illustrate that what was once a good idea for a country, might not always be. The constitution is not the Bible. It can be changed. We as a society need to evolve, and with it the laws that govern us. We have ammended the constitution plenty of times, effectivly altering what it says. Changing the phrasing of the "right to bear arms" is the same thing. Nobody said, or even implied for that matter, that anyone wanted to "throw away" your rights or our constitution. That statement is, as you put it, ridiculis.

If you want to slow down or attempt to end gun violence then the solution to the problem (and the problem in school shootings has been...guns!) then you need to start with gun laws. At the very top of gun laws is the "right to bear arms".

If you want your kid to be sodomized (at gunpoint) anf then killed execution style (with a gun) as the kids were in Penn. then you might want to re-evaluate your view on the one big flaw in our constitution.

--by NOT PARANOID on 10/6/06   Lives: Dearborn  

I hope you have a better argument than the unconstitutional wire tapping "laws" as you call them. Actually, they weren't laws. They were the president ignoring the laws he himself signed. This is why it's a slippery slope. First it's okay in one area, then we say, well it was okay there, why not here, and then it goes on an on.

--by THE LOCAL LIBERALS on 10/6/06   Lives: Dearborn  

guns in the classroom? why not just blindfold half the students and hand firearms to them? a fit, 17 year old boy can easily force a gun from an older adult. this will only lead to more bloodshed.

--by P on 10/6/06   Lives: Dearborn  

To: "Get the Facts"...

Thank you for the Civics lesson. Seriously! Our rights are not discussed nearly enough. I read a poll recently where most highschoolers can't name their (5) rights spelled out in the 1st Amendment.

Yes, I read the constitution again less than a year ago (with my high schooler). I believe the 2nd amendment is what I was referring to in my original response. Why did you assume "perhaps" that I haven't read it, when I was the person who brought it up?

Each amendment ADDED rights to our citizens, didn't REMOVE rights from them (which is what you are proposing.) If I'm in error, please point it out and I'd respectfully admit it. I'm no Constitutional expert. Just a proud American mommy.

If you'd like to debate the "controversial wire tapping", you'll have to find someone else. I stick to arguments I think I can win.
:-)

So do you think we SHOULD shred the constitution? I'm not sure why you're upset with that point.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I won't "try another argument" because I still think the first one (our constitutional rights) is pretty good.

--by LayLo on 10/6/06   Lives: Dearborn  

Dear HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF,

I totally agree with you. Thanks for making your point so eloquently.

--by LayLo on 10/6/06   Lives: Dearborn  

I am a Dearborn Teacher and I don't think it's a bad idea at all. We have rules in place that set out students up for disaster. Lock down rules that keep students locked in rooms (if someone comes into the school with a gun). If someone wants to come to a school and shoot someone, believe me, they will know who they want and where they are! The policies we have in place, keeps kids right where the shooter would want them. We have no way of getting away from anyone. Even worse, the physical education students are all put into a gym and left there...sound stupid? You bet it is...even more stupid than that...if there is a fire alarm, the physical education students are forced to go into the pool! Yes, the pool...not outside as every student from age 5 is taught! There they are supposed to wait until the administration comes down and tells them to leave.

With rules like these...I'd be very happy to have something to protect my students and myself...because God knows no one at the school I work at will do anything to help anyone else.

It's a sad state of affairs, but the administration could care less about the kids and staff working there.

--by Dearborn Teacher on 10/7/06   Lives: Michigan  

Maybe if guns weren't so readily available you wouldn't have to worry about somebody hunting them down.

--by THANKS NRA on 10/8/06   Lives: Dearborn  

Yes, I'm on the crisis committee. This committee is designed to implement programs and ideas to help efficiently deal with issues within the school...however, drills will never really be like "the real thing." The solution is easy...if someone is in the building, get the hell out. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that if someone is in the building...getting out of the building is the safest option...instead we will lock people in the building. Does that sound like it makes any sense to you?

My ideas are simple...do NOT do drills. If the staff is given a clear directive of what to do in a specific situation, they would have a better chance of being safe with their students. This way, no one would know where the classes were going to go or where they were going to be.

While I agree with you that there are no perfect ways to conduct issues such as this...it's ridiculous to think that what we are doing is the best policy. The bottom line is this...unless someone has the power to stop those with guns and/or bombs...there is NOTHING we can do.

--by Dearborn Teacher on 10/8/06   Lives: Michigan  

The problem is not and never has been the availability of guns. It was not that long ago that guns were more available than now and having a gun or guns in the home was no big deal. Most every hardware store sold guns and ammo and no one heard of "gun violence". Just 15 to 20 years ago it was common in some parts of the state for teens to take guns to school this time of year so they could hunt on their way home and no one got shot or thought it a big deal.

The anti-gun crowd will blame guns for every evil known to man. It's easier to blame guns than to address issues such as the breakdown of the family, lack of disapline or the victom mentality where no one is responsible for what they do and no one is accountable. The anti-gun crowd will keep calling for more laws but not one modern country has been able to reduce crime by banning guns.

I wonder long long before a teacher faced with the situations such as we have had recently yells for the kids to run as he/she rushes the gunman. In the recent cases the teachers were more than willing to leave when told to and leave the kids behind.

--by Dearborn Joe on 10/8/06   Lives: Dearborn  

I'm an idiot...good argument. Obviously you haven't seen to many of the school shootings where people die because they are stuck in certain areas of a building. So yes, you are correct. Keep them where they are and allow them to die execution style. Brilliant. I appologize for offering another way out for the innocent people. I see that I am wrong and you are the expert in school violence. Again, please accept my appology for your well stated argument. "you are an idiot." "...you're an alarmist and watch way too much walker texas ranger." Obviously with this fine argument, you've taken your time to study your response and I certainly will take a backseat to you incredibly well informed response.

or maybe...

I am actually in the buildings and have some idea what in the world I'm talking about. While I realize that arming teachers isn't the best option (I never said it was...I said I was for it) it certainly is better than having no one able to stop someone that is armed!

Also, your comment, "Most teachers can’t even balance a check book let alone know discretionary firearm usage." Let me inform you of this:

I am a hunter...I have hunted for 20 years. I have never, ever shot anyone or anything that I didn't aim at. Nor has anyone I know. I have a strong knowledge of gun mechanics and safety. I assume that you checked into my history as well as you took the time to research your response...because you wouldn't just spout off without knowing what you are talking about. Oh, and by the way...I've never had an overdraft either. (can you say the same) I'm sure you can, because you appear to be the financial and law enforcement expert of Dearborn.

--by Dearborn Teacher on 10/9/06   Lives: Michigan  

First off, Hunting vs. an armed confrontation are 2 different things.

You may be a hunter. That is fine and I will give you the fact you are aware of gun safety when it comes to hunting.

We are discussing having teachers wear a firearm to protect themselves and their students in the case of an armed intruder entering the building. This bodes the question, what type of training are they going to have to carry a gun?

I am a firm believer in that the use of a firearm is the last resort. That is why the law enforcement community is going to other means of disabling a suspect rather than a gun or a night stick.

Mace and Tasers are being utilized instead of a fire arm. In my early days in law enforcement, you always talked to people you always tried not to use a fire arm.

Teachers are human to, how many teachers will have accidental fire arms discharges? What happens if they are having a problem with a student and the student starts to walk toward them and they fire?

In my opinion, this is not a good resolution. As for emergency planning for Dearborn Schools, You never practice, you never coordinate responses and most important, you have not figured out that the responding agencies are in charge, not the principal….

--by Former Law Enforcement Officer on 10/9/06   Lives: Detroit area  

To The Crow and others.

In the recent case the student was not talked out safely by the police. After he fired the shot into the cieling the gun jammed, he had no other choice. Had the gun not jammed this most likely would have ended with him shooting himself or being shot by the police after shooting X number of students.

Wether to Lock Down or have the students flee is a choice that will be unique to each incident. In Columbine the school was in lock down and the killers casually walked from room to room picking out victims, and had the numerous bombs they had planted gone off Hundreds of these locked down students would have died. To stay put or flee is a decision that must be made on the spot by well trained staff with no time for consultation. If the danger is a gunman in the school then it may be best to remove the students from the threat and not leave them in the school with the gunman with the hopes that the police who are coming from the outside will be able to stop him/her.

The call for arming teachers although, most likely unwise, is because people are starting to think that there has to be a better way than just telling the students to sit at their desks while no one does anything. This comes about because most often the school emergency plans are being made by teachers and school admin. folks with no training or knowlege of emergency procedures. If the Police and Fire leaders are not part of the planning process when they arrive they will do it their way and the school plan may be a hinderance.

Teachers and parents should be demanding that the school administrators make contact with the local Police and Fire Departments and have them jointly develope flexable plans for all emergencies and the Teachers who don't want to take part and train should find another line of work. When those kids walk through the door they are the teachers responsibility, not just to educate them but to keep them safe. Its unthinkable that any teacher would leave the classroom or school with any of his/her students behind. In two of the recent shootings the teachers left with the male students leaving the girls to the gunman, why?

--by Dearborn Joe on 10/10/06   Lives: Dearborn  

"All you seem to know how to do is to just run scared and cause a panic situation as opposed to keeping people calm and under control so law enforcement can do their job. I am sure glad you’re not my kid’s teacher! Like most idealistic/unrealistic, self important and arrogant teachers, your way can only be the right way because you don’t understand the alternatives set forth by those who have experience and knowledge on the subject. You should stick to the timeless art of shooting at unarmed defenseless animals in the woods and leave dealing with armed gunman that can shoot back to the police."

Ah yes, another fine argument. I am the one running scared and creating a panic situation. Don't blow things out of proportion here. I said a viable option is to get kids out of the school when a shooter is in the school. I don't think I ever mentioned creating panic situations...because when the kids go on lock down, I am sure they won't be concerned at all. You know what I mean, since you have obviously dealt with situations such as these numerous times. Kids are much more calm sitting in a room waiting for someone with a gun as opposed to getting out windows or whatever options they may have available to them.

I never said my way was the right way, so don't put words into my mouth. I said (a few times now) an alternative or another option would be nice. I have never stated or argued that I am right...It's my opinion. You have yours, I have mine. And, since you say that I should leave those decisions to those who have experience...I'm wondering who that is. Who in and around Dearborn has experience in school shootings? No one that I am aware of. Because someone has read someonthing in a book or been briefed from another case, doesn't make them an expert. As Dearborn Joe stated...the police didn't talk the teenager out of the building, his gun didn't work. He fired a shot...would have fired more. When he couldn't they took over. Unlike the other school shootings recently, the police haven't stopped anyone from dying. They haven't stopped anyone from being shot. They haven't stopped anyone from committing suicide. I am also assuming that if a gunman were in your place of work (or home) you would just sit tight and wait for some help to arrive...or would you try to get out to safety? Try and be honest with yourself. You'd be halfway across town!

As far as hunting...I will be out there practicing the "timeless art of shooting at unarmed defenseless animals in the woods." This is the one thing you actually got correct. Hunting is timeless. Man has hunted since the beginning of time. That's how people eat. I'm assuming by your comment that you are a vegetarian...if you are, great. I'll enjoy my steaks and burgers..you enjoy your salad. If you aren't, then stop being a hippocrit.

--by Dearborn Teacher on 10/11/06   Lives: Michigan  

Why don't we give the teachers guns. Then after some lunatic teachers shoot the place up we can give the kids guns. Then, we can give the school bus drivers guns. And so on down the road we outlaw everything that kills, except guns.

--by have a gun,leave a gun, need a gun, take a gun on 10/13/06   Lives: Dearborn  

Guns in schools: kids sometimes bring them. Administrators and teachers never have them.

Here is my PRUDENT solution: (1) Phones in every classroom. (2) Locking storage in every room for teachers. (3) In-house front-line disciplinarians/security officers with authority to enforce rules and consequences. (4) Cameras overseeing the busses, school grounds, commercial and residential areas adjacent to school grounds, designated parking areas, hallways, cafeterias, bathrooms, and classrooms. Conceal cameras to protect them from vandalism. Post surveillance.

THEN, when the computer lab gets vandalized or burglarized we can see who did it! When someone is being harassed on the bus, we can see it. When kids leave school to hide behind a house to smoke weed, we can identify them and verify absences with attendance records. When the math class using the drafting lab breaks the t-squares on 10 of the drafting tables, we can make the destructive students pay. On the last day of school, when kids spray string and throw water on the teachers and overflow the camodes, we can hold the culprits accountable. When students park on the side streets, blocking residential driveways or dump their fast food litter on someone's lawn, we can identify the offenders.

YES, IT HAS REALLY COME TO THIS!!! (Forget about invasions of privacy. The public safety in a public place, like school, is above the personal privacy of individuals here....yes, just like at the bank or the drug store.

Expect that you are under surveillance and behave yourself! (Oh, and the cost? The cost of the system is far less than the cost of the losses from vandalism, theft, lawsuits, and injuries.) The peace of mind for the teachers, administrators, parents and students? Priceless.

--by A Dearborn Teacher on 10/16/06   Lives: Dearborn  

Well, I suppose you can name me the "total fool." Again, you have NO information...you simply throw insults around without backing anything up. I have repeatedly answered your questions and given information to back up my feelings. You have yet to do so. Unfortunate.

First of all, I am not alone. The legislature in Wisconsin is considering this issue. The state of Utah is also offering concealed weapons permit classes for teachers, because they feel (and have facts that prove it) that this will decrease the threat of violence.

For example:

S. 261 eliminates many of the statutorily unauthorized areas for CWP carry. The best available research shows that virtually all mass public murders now occur in areas where CWP holders are prohibited from carrying self-defense weapons, e.g., schools and publicly owned buildings. While it might be defensible to retain such statutory prohibitions if such prohibitions were merely benign, the fact of the matter is that such statutory prohibitions are not benign. Such statutory restrictions are actually counter productive to promoting the health and welfare of the people... - State of South Carolina

Using cross-sectional time-series data for U.S. counties from 1977 to 1992, we find that allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crimes and it appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths. If those states which did not have right-to-carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders; 4,177 rapes; and over 60,000 aggravate assaults would have been avoided yearly. On the other hand, consistent with the notion of criminals responding to incentives, we find criminals substituting into property crimes involving stealth and where the probabilities of contact between the criminal and the victim are minimal. The largest population counties where the deterrence effect on violent crimes is greatest are where the substitution effect into property crimes is highest. Concealed handguns also have their greatest deterrent effect in the highest crime counties. Higher arrest and conviction rates consistently and dramatically reduce the crime rate. Consistent with other recent work (Lott, 1992b), the results imply that increasing the arrest rate, independent of the probability of eventual conviction, imposes a significant penalty on criminals. The estimated annual gain from allowing concealed handguns is at least $6.214 billion. - David Mustard, University of Chicago, 1996

at least 2.5 million protective uses of firearms each year in the U.S., more than four times the reported number of violent crimes committed with firearms. Most protective uses do not involve discharge of a firearm. In only about 0.1% of protective gun uses are criminals killed, and in only 1% are criminals wounded. A Dept. of Justice survey found that 40% of felons chose not to commit at least some crimes for fear their victims were armed, and 34% admitted being scared off or shot at by armed victims. -- (James D. Wright, Peter H. Rossi, Armed and Considered Dangerous, 1986)

Here are 3 studies that support that intervention could work. Again, I am simply saying that I agree with the research and think it wouldn't be a bad idea to try. Do I think every teacher should be armed? Absolutely not. It needs to be a personal choice. We certainly can't require anyone to carry a weapon if they didn't want to or didn't feel safe doing so. However, with that said...we can't forget the following information (apparently you have forgotten it, or maybe you extensive law enforcement background forces you to ignore it).




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Oct. 2, 2006: Charles Carl Roberts, 32, took 10 girls hostage in an Amish school in Nickel Mines, Pa., killing five of them before killing himself.



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Sept. 29, 2006: Eric Hainstock, 15, took two guns into his Cazenovia, Wi., school and fatally shot the principal before being captured and arrested.



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Sept. 27, 2006: Duane Morrison, 53, took six girls hostage at Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Co., molesting them and holding them for hours before fatally shooting one girl and then himself.



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Nov. 8, 2005: Assistant principal Ken Bruce was killed and two other administrators seriously wounded when Kenny Bartley, a 15-year-old student, opened fire in a Jacksboro, Tennessee high school.



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Aug. 24, 2006: Christopher Williams, 27, went to Essex Elementary School in Vermont and, when he could not find his ex-girlfriend - a teacher, he shot and killed one teacher and wounded another. Earlier, he had killed the ex-girlfriend's mother. He attemtped suicide but survived and was arrested.



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Mar 21, 2005: Jeff Weise, 16, shot to death his grandfather and his grandfather's girlfriend and then went to his high school in Red Lake, Minnesota, where he killed a security guard, a teacher, and five students, and wounded seven others, before killing himself.



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Nov. 24, 2004: James Lewerke, a 15-year-old student at Valparaiso High School in northern Indiana, pulled two large knives out of his pants and stabbed seven of his classmates. None of the injuries was life-threatening.


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May 7, 2004: Four teenagers leaving a charity basketball game at their Randallstown, Maryland, high school were wounded, one critically, in a drive-by shooting. Among the suspects was a 17-year-old student at the school who had been involved in an earlier incident over a girl.



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Apr. 3, 2004: A shot was fired from a passing car through the glass front door of the Accelerated Learnin and Transition Academy in Houston. About 200 students were in the school at the time but no one was injured.



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Feb. 11, 2004: Ten-year-old Faheem Thomas-Childs was shot in the face outside T.M. Peirce Elementary School in Philadelphia. He died six days after the shooting. He was caught in a shootout between two rival gangs. The gun battle unleashed nearly 100 shots in the area as children were arriving at the school. A school crossing guard was also injured. Two men were arrested for the shooting.



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Feb. 2, 2004: 17-year-old James Richardson was shot to death in Ballou Senior High School in Washington D.C. during second period. The shooting resulted from a confrontation with another student who was arrested.



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Jan. 13, 2004: Following an argument, a 19-year-old entered Northern High School in Detroit and shot Aaron Wilson, 18, six times in the leg. Neither teen was a student at the school.



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Nov. 14, 2003: A 15-year-old student accidently fired a handgun outside the East Mecklenburg High School (North Carolina) cafeteria injuring two students.



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Oct. 30, 2003: 16-year-old Devin Fowlkes was shot to death in front of Anacostia Senior High School in Washington D.C. as he left a homecoming dance along with a crowd of students. Another student was slightly injured. A 15-year-old, who said he was aiming at someone else, was arrested and charged with murder.


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Sept. 26, 2003: A 13-year-old boy fired a 9 mm semiautomatic handgun into the ceiling of a Cleveland County, North Carolina, middle school. He also fired one shot into the closed door of a classroom filled with students. No one was injured.


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Sept. 24, 2003: Aaron Rollins, 17, was killed and Seth Bartell, 14, was critically wounded when 15-year-old John Jason McLaughlin walked out of a locker room at Rocori High School in Cold Spring, Minn., and shot them with a .22-caliber gun he had in his gym bag. Bartell died Oct. 10.



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Apr. 24, 2003: In Red Lion, Pa., 14-year old James Sheets shot and killed his middle school principal Eugene Segro in a crowded school cafeteria and then killed himself.



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Apr. 14, 2003: Gunmen armed with an AK-47 rifle and a handgun opened fire in the packed gymnasium of John McDonogh Senior High School in New Orleans. Jonathan Williams, 15, was killed and three girls were wounded in a spray of bullets. It was thought to be a revenge killing for an earlier murder. A loaded handgun was found on the victim. Four suspects were arrested.



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April 29, 2002 - 17-year-old Dragoslav Petkovic opened fire with a handgun shortly after noon at his high school in Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina, killing one teacher and wounding another before taking his own life.


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Apr. 26, 2002 - 19-year-old Robert Steinhaeuser, who had been expelled from Johann Gutenberg high school in Erfurt, Germany, returned to the school and shot to death 13 teachers, two students and a police officer before killing himself.


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Feb. 19, 2002 - A 22-year-old gunman in Munich, Germany, killed his former boss and a foreman at the company that fired him, then went to a high school in a Munich suburb, where he shot the school's headmaster when he was unable to find the teacher he was after. He then shot another teacher in the face and set off homemade bombs before killing himself.



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Jan. 15, 2002: Two students at Martin Luther King Jr. High School in Manhattan, were seriously wounded when a teenager opened fire at the school.



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Nov. 13, 2001: Chris Buschbacher, 17, went to the Caro (Mich.) Learning Center armed with a .22-caliber rifle and a 20-gauge shotgun, taking a student and a teacher hostage. During a three-hour standoff, he fired two shots. The hostages were eventually released but Buschbacher, who was reportedly despondent over a breakup with his girlfriend, shot himself as police prepared to enter the building.


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June 8, 2001 - Mamoru Takuma forced his way into Ikeda Elementary School in Osaka, Japan, stabbed to death eight students and injured 13 others. Takuma, who had a long history of mental illness, pleaded guilty to the crimes.



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Mar. 30, 2001: Neal Boyd IV, 16, was shot to death outside Lew Wallace High School in Gary, Ind., where he was a student. 17-year-old Donald R. Burt Jr. was arrested, convicted and sentenced to 57 years in prison.



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Mar. 22, 2001: Four students and two teachers were wounded at Granite Hills High School in El Cajon, Ca. None of the injuries were life-threatening. One of the wounded students, 18-year-old Jason Hoffman, was the alleged assailant. The shooting took place in a San Diego suburb just seven miles from the March 5th high school shooting.



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Mar. 7, 2001: An 8th-grade girl shot a 13-year-old classmate during lunch at Bishop Neumann Junior-Senior High School in Williamsport, Pa. The suspect was arrested and the injuries were not considered life-threatening.



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Mar 26, 2001 - An arson fire at the Kyanguli Secondary school in Kenya killed 67 students. Two students were charged with murder.
Unidentified students console each other after a shooting at Santana High School in Santee, Calif. (AP Photo)



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Mar. 5, 2001: 15-year-old Charles Andrew Williams was arrested for killing two classmates, and wounding 13 other people, at Santana High School in Santee, Calif. In August 2002, he received a 50-year to life sentence.


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Feb. 2, 2001: Two students and a teachers were reportedly grazed by gunfire at Osborn High School in Detroit. The victims were not seriously hurt, and no suspect was caught.



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Jan. 17, 2001: Juan Matthews, 17, died after being shot three times while standing in front of Lake Clifton Eastern High School in Baltimore.



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Oct. 24, 2000: An armed teen-ager briefly held a classroom full of children and a teacher hostage at Pioneer Elementary School in Glendale, Ariz., before surrendering to authorities. There were no injuries.



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Sept. 26, 2000: A 13-year-old and a 15-year-old were critically wounded when they shot each other with the same gun. The shootings occured during a fight at Woodson Middle School in New Orleans, La. The gun had been slipped through a fence to one of the students by a 13-year-old who had been expelled from the school.



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Josh Warnock is taken into custody. (AP Photo)

July 17, 2000: In Renton, Wash., near Seattle, a 13-year-old boy was charged with shooting a handgun into the ceiling of the school cafeteria. More than 100 students were in the cafeteria at the time, but no one was injured. The boy, later identified as Josh Warnock, fled and was taken into custody at the home of his grandparents the following day


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May 26, 2000: In Lake Worth, Fla., 13-year-old honor student Nathaniel Brazill shot a teacher in the face, killing him. Police said the seventh-grader had been sent home for throwing water balloons and returned to the school with a handgun he found in his grandfather's dresser


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Mar. 10, 2000:19-year-old Stacy Smalls and 16-year-old Ramone Kimble died from gunshot wounds they suffered as they were leaving a dance honoring the Savannah, Ga. Beach High School girls basketball state championship team. Darrell Ingram, 19, was arrested and charged with murder and aggravated assault.


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Kayla Rolland

Feb. 29, 2000: A first-grade boy at Buell Elementary School in Mount Morris Township, Mich., fatally shot classmate Kayla Rolland, 6, after the two children had a verbal spat. He took the .32-caliber handgun from his uncle's home, where he was living.


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Dec. 6, 1999: Seth Trickey, 13, fired at least 15-rounds at Fort Gibson Middle School in Fort Gibson, Okla., wounding four classmates. He was convicted on seven assault charges.



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Nov. 19, 1999: A 13-year-old girl was shot in the head in school at Deming, New Mexico. She died the next day. 12-year-old Victor Cordova Jr. pleaded guilty to the shooting.



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May 20, 1999: T.J. Solomon, 15, opened fire at Heritage High School in Conyers, Ga., wounding six students. Solomon pleaded guilty but mentally ill and was sentenced to 40 years in prison.



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Apr. 28, 1999: A 14-year-old who had been bullied by his classmates, opened fire at W.R., Myers high school in Taber, Alberta, Canada, killing a 17-year-old student and wounding another student. The boy, who was obsessed with the Columbine shootings, pleaded guilty to murder and attempted murder and, in November 2000, was sentenced to three-years in jail.



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Dylan Klebold - Eric Harris

Apr. 20, 1999: Columbine High School students Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric Harris, 18, went on a shooting rampage, killing 12 of their classmates and one teacher, a Hoosier native, in Littleton, Colo. Klebold and Harris then kill themselves. The massacre was the bloodiest school shooting in U.S. history.


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June 15, 1998: A male teacher and a female guidance counselor were shot in a hallway at a Richmond, Va., high school. Neither was seriously injured.



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Kip Kinkle

May 21, 1998: Two students were killed and more than 20 other people wounded when Kip Kinkel, 15, opened fire at Thurston High School's cafeteria in Springfield, Ore. Earlier that day, he killed his parents. He had been expelled the day before for bringing a gun to school.


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May 21, 1998: Miles Fox,15, died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head in Onalaska, Wash. Earlier in the day, he boarded a high school bus with a gun in hand, ordered his girlfriend off the bus and took her to his home, where he shot himself.


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May 21, 1998: A 15-year-old girl was shot and wounded at a suburban Houston, Tx., high school when a gun in the backpack of a 17-year-old boy discharged.



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May 19, 1998: Three days before graduation, 18-year-old honor student Jacob Davis allegedly opened fire in a parking lot at Lincoln County High School in Fayetteville, Tenn., killing a classmate who was dating his ex-girlfriend.


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Apr. 28, 1998: Two teen-age boys were shot to death and a third was wounded as they played basketball at a Pomona, Calif., elementary school hours after classes had ended. An unidentified 14-year-old boy was charged.


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Apr. 24, 1998: A 48-year-old science teacher was shot to death in front of students at a graduation dance in Edinboro, Pa. Andrew Wurst, a 14-year-old student at James W. Parker Middle School, was charged. The killer was later described as depressed, alienated and a boy who never smiled.



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Andrew Golden


Mitchell Johnson

Mar. 24, 1998: Four girls and a teacher were shot to death and 10 others wounded during a false fire alarm at Westside Middle School in Jonesboro, Ark. Two boys, Andrew Golden, 11, and Mitchell Johnson, 13, were accused of setting off the alarm and then opening fire from a nearby woods.


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Dec. 1, 1997: Three students were killed and five others wounded as they took part in a prayer circle in a hallway at Heath High School in West Paducah, Ky. Michael Carneal, 14, described as emotionally immature, plead guilty but mentally ill and was sentenced to life.. One of the wounded girls was paralyzed.


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Oct. 1, 1997: 16-year-old outcast Luke Woodham of Pearl, Miss., was sentenced to life in prison for killing his mother, then going to Pearl High School and shooting nine students. Two students died, including the suspect's ex-girlfriend.


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March 30, 1997: Mohammad Ahmad al-Naziri, 48, armed with an assault rifle, opened fire on hundreds of students at two school in Sanaa, Yemen. Six children and two others died. He was sentenced to death and executed by firing squad one week after the incident.



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Feb. 19, 1997: 16-year-old Evan Ramsey opened fire with a shotgun in a common area at a Bethel, Alaska, high school, killing the principal and a student and wounding two others. Ramsey was sentenced to two 99-year prison terms.


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Thomas Hamilton killed 17 people, and then himself, at a Scotland elementary school. (AP Photo)
Mar. 13, 1996: Thomas Hamilton, 43, dressed in black and wearing earmuffs to protect himself from the noise, entered an elementary school in Dunblane, Scotland, and sprayed 105 bullets into the gym striking 29 people before killing himself. Sixteen five and 6-year-olds and a teacher died.



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Feb. 2, 1996: 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis walked into algebra class with a hunting rifle in his trenchcoat and opened fire, killing the teacher and two students. A third student was injured during the shooting at a junior high school in Moses Lake, Wash.


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Jan. 18, 1993: Scott Pennington, 17, walked into Deanna McDavid's English class at East Carter High School in Grayson, Ky., and shot her in the head. He then shot janitor Marvin Hicks. Pennington was sentenced to life without parole


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May 1, 1992: Eric Houston, 20, killed four people and wounded 10 in a seige at his former high school in Olivehurst, Ca. The attack was said to be in retaliation for a failing grade. Houston was convicted and sentenced to death.



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Jan. 17, 1989: Patrick Purdy, 26, armed with an AK-47 assault rifle, opened fire on a playground at a Stockton, Ca., elementary school. Five children died and 29 children and one teacher were wounded before Purdy killed himself.



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Sept. 26, 1988: James Wilson, 19, opened fire in a Greenwood, S.C. elementary school. He shot seven students and two teachers. Two 8-year-old girls died.



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May 20, 1988: Laurie Dann, 30, shot six students at a Winnetka, Ill., elementary school, killing one second-grader. She then shot a man in a nearby house before committing suicide.



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Jan. 21, 1985: James Alan Kearbey, 14, armed with a M1-A semiautomatic rifle and a .357-caliber handgun, killed the principal and wounded two teachers and a student at his Goddard (Kansas) Junior high school. He pleaded no contest and served seven years in a state youth facility.



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Jan. 29, 1979: Brenda Spencer, 16, opened fire with a .22-caliber rifle at an elementary school across the street from her San Diego, Ca., home. She killed two people and wounded seven because she "didn't like Mondays". She is in prison.



These aren't teachers....they are students and outsiders who felt the need and/or desire to go into school buildings and kill people. The police can't help when they aren't there. Teachers and school staff can't help when we are locked in rooms, hoping the shooter doesn't come our way. I realize that I am a "total fool" for questioning your almightly law fighting power, but again, I'm stating facts from research and history. As far as your 2 tragedies...any way they compare to the list I just gave you? Not a chance...before you go calling people names and bashing the idea, why don't you just realize that you aren't going to stop any school shootings, because you aren't there! We ARE!!! I know you don't care about the school staff or students, but hey...I do, and I sure as hell hope you aren't the one to come and help us. If so, I'll just wait for my time!

--by DEARBORN TEACHER on 10/17/06   Lives: Michigan  

I AM A GUN COLLECTOR AND MARKS MAN. I OWN 146 HAND GUNS AND 73 RIFLES ALONG WITH TO MANY SHOT GUNS TO COUNT...
I am very sorry you are so fearful of guns.
Ive never seen a gun just jump off the table and kill someone.
In light of the this gun having a mind of its own and you being fearful . Why dont you get off your butt and teach a child right from wrong and make a real difference in a childs life.
Why do idiots like you run around trying to stifle law abiding folks.
WHY MUST I HAVE TO GIVE UP MY PRIVLEGES BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE BALLs OF AN AMEOBA?
Why cant you campaign against the parents who dont teach thier children well.
Why must a teacher carry a weapon ? why must a child be thrust into an adult inviroment so soon?
THE ANSWER IS IN THE PARENTS THAT ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH BUILDING A BIG HOUSE NEXT TO THE CURB TO IMPRESS PEOPLE THEY DONT KNOW RATHER THAN HAVE THE SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY TO KNOCK THIER KID ON THIER BUTT WHEN THEY NEED IT.
All kids need a hug some need a pop on the butt, Some need to just be knocked out cold repeatedly to get the message.All need mom and dad to crush thier playstations and spend quality time with them.
Its the parents who have an appathetic set of child rearing skills that think this policy of teachers carrying guns in necessary.
Parks are dissappearing, hell there are ordinances in some citys that say if there are x amount of children walkin down the street they can be picked up under a gang ordinance. In short...
anyone who is against an honest person owning a gun and putting a gun into a class room instead of letting a kid be a kid needs an posterior whooping.

--by Jet on 10/19/06   Lives: Detroit area  

Dearborn Teacher,


There are phones in every class room. If yours doesn’t work, call the building engineer to have it fixed. There is lockable storage in classrooms. Teachers don’t use them.

There are in house first line disciplinarians. These are the principals and assistant principals. They don’t want to take any action due to the political fall out.

The High Schools have cameras. They are available after the fact. They are not used because administrators don’t have the time to use them.

You want the school district to monitor the areas around the schools to stop all the vandalism etc? How much of a pay cut are you willing to take to put this into motion? How about the liability issues for the cameras watching non-district areas?

Your posting sounds like the rantings of a frustrated teacher that doesn’t want to do anything….have a nice day!

--by Law enforcement on 10/22/06   Lives: Detroit area  

Reality Check & Law Enforcement,

It is sad to once again see you complaining about the teachers and making statements that have nothing to do with what was actually said.

First of all...I don't blame anyone for what goes on in the world, I blame the people that commit those horribles crimes.

Second of all...you are correct, I am not concerned about "how the rest of the world works..." I work IN the school...that's why I'm concerned about that. The two of you OBVIOUSLY don't, so why criticize those of us that do. If you don't like it, please get the hell out. Those of us inside the schools will be much happier.

Third, I really don't care about vandalism...never even mention it actually. So, I don't care if the video cameras monitor the outside or not.

Finally, I am a frustrated teacher (you both finally got one correct!!!). I am frustrated by all-knowing people like you that continue to preach to me and other teachers that our job is a joke and we don't do anything. Obviously you don't do it...or you wouldn't complain. Don't be angry at me because I love my job and what I do on a daily basis...just because I made a wonderful career choice (and apparently you are disgruntled and pissed off about yours) doens't mean you should be attacking me...oh and by the way...neither of you have given any answers to the questions I've asked or any other possible solutions to the problem. Feel free to keep on bitching, you are the problem with public schools. Your arrogance and know-it-all attitude makes it impossible for any real change to take place. Keep up the good work...

--by Dearborn Teacher on 10/25/06   Lives: Michigan